Mahatir Monhamad
Well, there has always been this kind of confrontation between the United States and China, where lately we have seen our leaders visiting China and meeting with the Chinese leaders. That is a good sign. We hope that that will become something frequent, and where there are problems, that problems should be discussed and settle around the table, rather than having confrontations and wars.
James Chau
There is a trust deficit in the bilateral relationship. Looking back, do you think there was real trust to begin with in 1979, when President Jimmy Carter, and Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping forged that relationship? Or do you think they simply chose to look the other way and find a way forward for pragmatic purposes?
Mahatir Monhamad
Yeah, there is. Honestly, this set within two competing two powers. Each one wants to be the number one superpower. But that, of course, led to competition. Competition is good. When competition results in confrontation, and wars, that is very bad. So people should come to their senses. Because wars do not resolve any problem. Through debate and negotiation, or even going to a court of law, we will find the solution to a conflicts without the dimension, the death costs. So leaders should understand that. But unfortunately, there are even domestic pressures, so that the leaders take a stand to reflect the interests of certain elements in the country.
James Chau
My American friends tell me that while the United States today is deeply divided, the one issue that unifies both sides of the political spectrum is their opposition to China, and their fear of what could happen or what they think will happen in Taiwan. What's your take on that?
Mahatir Monhamad
China claims that Taiwan is a part of China, but is never taken any action, no violent action against Taiwan, or made any attempt to invade and conquer Taiwan. I think the relationship with Taiwan is useful to China. So I think China would want to leave Taiwan as it is. But we must accept that Taiwan is a part of China. So this idea that there should be separate country, Taiwan as a separate country. And to do that we must have opposition allies and all that, all the seas are not contributing anything. The recent visit of Pelosi doesn't solve anything, it just makes things worse.
James Chau
Has that corner been turned? Since Speaker Pelosi is visit given the recent high-level interactions with John Kerry, Antony Blinken, Janet Yellen, or do you still think that's a sting being felt?
Mahatir Monhamad
I think they are coming to their senses. Because confrontation and eventual wars is going to destroy the whole world, we cannot afford that, we want to have peace and stability. And any attempt to contribute towards good relations should be supported by all parties, including the two main parties in America.
James Chau
As a statesman yourself, a longtime statesman, and a global elder, what would your advice be to the leaders of both countries and the people who are able to influence and inform that relationship?
Mahatir Monhamad
Building trust is certainly a good move, but in negotiation, in time to resolve conflicts, one has to accept that we cannot get everything that we want, we have to make sacrifice, because the other side also will have to make sacrifices. Without forgoing certain demands that we have, we cannot reach agreement. So, both the U.S. and China must be prepared to lose some in order to gain more. That is my belief is that you can never get 100% out of all, nor can you get 100% out of a negotiation, but on the other hand, in war, you lose a lot of things, people die and countries are destroyed, but the end result is the same as a negotiation, but with a negotiation, there is no death, there is no disruption. So, it is better to negotiate because the end result would be the same as fighting war. In the fight, a war you may win, you may lose, in negotiation also you may win and you may lose but without the destruction.